Pagan vassals are more likely to seek independence, and gain warscore more rapidly than others in independence wars. Intermarry Buddhist, Zoroastrian group. Autonomous leadership is only good if you need neither GHWs nor excommunications. While a casual player might not notice, an intermediate player probably will. Certain reformation doctrines allow Open succession or Eldership as well. Marry 4 women with good traits, then pick the best kid that pops out. You hardly get Short year penalty with Imperial succession. Proselytizing: I will be honest, I never picked it. Uuugghhh. If tribal, remember that demesne counties which are still following the old faith will give less tax and levies. I haven't reformed a lot of pagan faiths, but when I do reform a pagan faith, I tend to pick the same four options every time (Unyielding - Enatic Clans & Unique - Autonomous). actually that "pagan" religion in game is just the generic pagan religion that all pagans had before the "old gods" expansion. This allows other pagans (especially Tengri and Germanic pagans) to fairly easily invade other pagans with conquest and subjugation casus belli. B. Doctrine 1: Polygamy: To make best use of Imperial Succession, having loads of wives is good as you can pick the best heir one of them pops out. As I try to have everyone with duchy and above titles be of my dynasty I have one save where I have 1000+ opinion just from veneration. There are no Hellenic rulers at any start date, but Hellenism can be revived in several ways: There is one special pagan faith that normally only appears in-game as the listed religion of long-dead historical figures. This applies even when one is the attacker, and on territory held by another lord; Only the dominant religion of the province you are standing upon matters. I mean making the enemy duke your vassal king through external inheritance? Reforming also provides access to the full set of feudal succession laws. Unlocks divine marriage, allowing and encouraging incestuous marriages. As temporal head you get to choose who to venerate. Ive heard it is currently bugged. This attrition only applies in provinces of the same religion as their ruler, so Germanic pagans won't lower their enemies' supply limits in Slavic territory. Because of this, it is usually strategically advisable to hold off on reforming your religion until your realm is at a multiple-kingdom level, and to make sure to exploit any subjugation or county conquest CBs against nearby easy target pagans before reforming your religion. Sky Burials. Its holy sites are scattered around the map but are mostly controlled by right religion, even in 1066 starting date. No male in the council. If you have tribal government, it is recommended to choose either Agnatic Clans or Enatic Clans doctrine to avoid Gavelkind succession law. Cosmopolitan - maybe for bloodline collecting? Each temple looted in a raid gives +1% to moral authority. Diviner read signs before a war to try to improve troop morale. Historically, the pagan faiths were gradually supplanted by Christianity, Islam, Dharmic religions, and Eastern religions, but this does not necessarily happen in the game. Unyielding is a must for small Pagan surrounded by powerful Abrahamic realms. If we pick it as germanic, tengri or aztec we will lose any troop bonus that we couldve inherited from unreformed religion. Hard to Convert. Seabound is just useless without Daring and picking these two doctrines is silly (unless we are not getting bored with constant raiding on our foes). Tax on subjects of different religious groups is allowed. Its full potential is available when we are huge feudal empire and rely more on our vassal levies. Can't agree with stability doctrine, tech and artifacts lower short reign penalty so it is not worth to take it, and as I said from my experience it is easy to overcome. Here is an extensive CK2 guide about Pagan Reformation, where we explain all Natures, Doctrines, and Leadership options. Each one can only occur at a certain, and different, time each year. It's a bit of a challenge but shouldn't be too much for any player with a bit of experience. It got to the point where I was raiding not based on gold or number of holdings or artifacts or anything like that, but simply based on the size of the ruler's court; I figured it would give me more chances to capture folks for the sacrifices. Two mutually exclusive bloodlines can be created by this process. Rulers lose prestige when at peace for too long. if you raid a lot + capture bonus from society + capture bonus from the military trait. I like Buddhism because the combination of concubinage and heir-nomination means you can end up with an unbroken line of Strong Genius rulers if you play the genetics game well, but unfortunately they're lousy at expansion. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Holy sites: Djimi, Draa, Gao, Kano and Wagadu. If gender flexibility is desired, Ancestor Veneration can be chosen for Eldership succession. Large nomadic realms continue to grow in strength as long as the khans continuously increase the number of empty holding slots they control. Reformer becomes the first religious head. Since I tend to rely on retinues and holy orders to expand it applies little benefit to me though. Other pagan faiths have different modifiers. In addition, all pagan faiths can be reformed. The selection of Leadership style determines the type of religious head. The sun is reflected beautifully on his bald head. There are 6 Natures you can choose from, all with their advantages and disadvantages: Peaceful Bonuses +3 Demesne limit. If someone used it with success please advocate this nature in comments. Right now before I will be able to even convert rest of my provinces, they already do it.*. It's included in Children of Perun and Survivors of Ukko btw. The unique traits of Autonomous are not that great, and GHWs are a must against large realms like the Ere. Kiev in 769 is notably a start whose default ruler, Dobrava Turov, is a woman. Sacrificing prisoners unlocks special traits, actions, and a bloodline that grants Prestige for sacrifices as well. This is in addition to the pagan homeland attrition penalty, which forces the large numbers of troops needed to invade a defensive pagan home territory to face severe attrition for the duration of any siege. Prisoners of different religions can be sacrificed for Piety. I like Romuva and Suomensusko the best but I don't have much experience with Bon but I think I'll try them soon. Messalianism because it's the single most outlandish religion in the game. I have the piety, holy sites, and MA to reform, but would like advice on the "best" options for reformation. Questions, Paradox Stability is useless without Eldership law. You are using an out of date browser. In 800 CE. Im happy to discuss my rankings or analysis with you guys. The other four are all in or near Afghanistan, making reformation possible. You want to conquer followers of the Cross/Crescent anyways. Incompatible with Sons Of Ragnarok and Invaders doctrines. No female temple holders. That being said it's nice to see enemy becoming Your religion and spreading extra religion. Those who stick with the old ways are considered heretics by the reformed faith, and may be targeted by holy wars. Charlemagne starts I tried so far seem to be financially starved, since it takes forever to get the basic naval tech and start raiding proper. Basically we attack opposite gender ruler, depose him/her and force our gender law on their realm. Penalty to moral authority (-15%) and to mission. Access to Hermetic society. The Short Reign relations modifier is three times more severe for pagans. Levy size bonus from unreformed Aztec faith will be lost. In early start dates Kiev is vulnerable to Tengri nomads (it borders the Magyars), so you may find that fabricating a claim to conquer Rugen is an easier way to get your third holy site. With it, You can just forget about any problems during succession. He is a culturally Norse Germanic pagan but has a Slavic son. Heir Designation is allowed (if at least one of Rajas of India or Jade Dragon is enabled). So is it bug or is it not a bug? It has its downsides because it makes AI more aggressive and incompetent AI can tank our MA very hard. As for best leadership, it depends. The last playable Slavic ruler is Chief Testislaw of Dyrmin. Nature: Peaceful ( you will rule a massive empire as a Roman and will mostly have Vassal Kings. When I started writing this tier list I wanted to put all natures in one tier, but realised I have never really used dogmatic and proselytizing because they feel lackluster to me. - can ask the leader of this realm to help convert the tribal leader's realm to the organized religion.Benefactor needs to be non-tribal, non-nomadic, non-theocracy (so you can't ask Pope for mass conversion . I used autonomous most often which gives some flat bonuses. your character tries to convert them personally, like carousing or something). Suomenusko, religion of the Finno-Ugric people stretches from the Baltic Sea to Siberia. Additionally, those defensive pagans who are tribal, may call forth Devout Warriors (without ). Keeping moral authority high is also a problem due to weak realms who often lose religious wars. Astrology also enables Hermetic society which puts it up there with the notable doctrines for me. Defensive pagan holdings also have larger garrisons (bonus varies per religion), making them harder to siege. +10% Attack for all units. Pagans follow the old polytheistic traditions, spurning the Abrahamic and Indian religions' talk of a segregation between physical and spiritual realms in favor of polytheistic physical gods. Raiding unavailable if culture doesnt allow raiding. Germanic faith is the faith of Scandinavian & Saxon people, worshiping deities like Odin/Wotan. Nature: Unyielding sounds good on paper, but if you plan on having a large realm I'm not sure it's great because it takes a long time for counties to change to your religion. Bloodthirsty Gods effects. Hellenic Paganism : A. West African religion is a blanket term for the diverse pagan beliefs of the tribes of Sub-Saharan West Africa. They can easily convert provinces by pillaging every holding in a province. The faith is in a strong position in the 769 start as north Africa is mainly ruled by tiny Muslim realms which can easily be conquered after consolidating your position in the south. No penalty for female rulers. Women can take up to 3 consorts. Pagan religions may gain a religious head and a Great Holy War (Crusade CB) if they reform. Once your a blob as the Roman Empire, you can stamp out any realm only with retinues/holy order and need not raise vassal levies, making civilized doctrine kind of useless). The homeland attrition penalty does apply to reformed pagans of another faith, but the "old faith" heresies have no such protection against the reformed churches of their specific branch of paganism. Warmongering: I think most of us are familiar with it, because unreformed Germanics and Tengri have it. JavaScript is disabled. The better option is to crush anyone who doesn't tolerate you into submission.". And you can make a chain of your demesne inside the silk trade route. AI rulers are less likely to start wars, plots and factions. Women can take up to 3 consorts. Also Temporal gives u cool(gives tons of piety and prestige per month) lvl 4 artifact . it isnt meant to be celtic pagan or any pagan religion in particular. Civilized already removes raised levies penalties to vassal opinion, and Hellenic can raid already. Crusader Kings is a historical grand strategy / RPG video game series for PC, Mac, Linux, PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X|S developed & published by Paradox Interactive. Also offsets short reign. Matrilineal marriages are disabled. Having young concubines (below the age of 45) gives a monthly prestige gain, which is especially useful for tribal and nomadic pagans. Choosing you own heir and not receiving penalty opinion for raised levies it too good to pass up. Pont Valentr Press J to jump to the feed. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans#Synergies, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/holy-fury-reformation-doctrine-list.1115209/. Enatic clans is still good because vassal duchies wont merge every generation but they're infinitely worse than agnatic clans. It has a synergy with incest doctrine making us high god of our religion. Agnatic law is enforced, open succession law is unlocked. Bn is also unlocked by Jade Dragon, and Horse Lords allows playing of pagan nomadic rulers. The African faith is followed by the peoples of sub-Saharan Africa. What options do you think is best for each, norse, slavic, tengri, etc? There are provinces with Bn faith in Tibet throughout the game but last playable rulers vanish in 1251, leaving Buddhists ruling Tibet. The Slavic faith is followed, as the name suggests, by the Slavic peoples of Europe. "Why would you want infidels to tolerate you? Sometimes simple solutions are the best. What, in your opinion, is the best photograph? All units gain 80% to defense when fighting enemies in a province of the combatant's religion. I'd suggest backing up a copy of your save game at the point where you can reform the religion and then trying a few combinations. Flat bonus to levy, garrison size and moral. Pagans follow the old polytheistic traditions, spurning the Abrahamic and Indian religions' talk of a segregation between physical and spiritual realms in favor of polytheistic physical gods.. Pagan non-nomads normally requires the Old Gods or Holy Fury DLC to be playable. D. Nature: If you picked peaceful nature, I suggest you pick Autonomous leadership(since Peaceful doctrine anyway disables GHW). No male in the council. its the left over generic pagan religion that isnt used anymore since old gods actually separated it into different pagan religions #12 If you want to play tall/stable, Peaceful is often better. Rulers who are neither at war, nor raiding, nor bound by an active truce lose a significant amount of prestige per month. Enatic law is enforced, open succession law is unlocked. Norse: Cultural one, then either agnatic, stability or blood sacrifices, depending on playstyle. Reformer becomes the first religious head, PDXCON Patron Deities, Ancestor Worship. Only if I could mark "Helpful" multiple times Is making your concubine who was a "raid-captured daughter of enemy duke" your vassal queen, and then murdering her an exploit? Temporal gives us nice hat upon reformation, and is part of synergy dogmatic, divine marriage which does not work atm. A pagan start that allows to make a kingdom and to reform faith in the shortest time, preferably, before the first succession and loss of titles. Lose piety when at war against faithful.Penalty to Spymaster steal technology. Unrelenting cannot be picked with unyielding, and it cancels out any unreformed levy or troops bonus. Defining features in-game: Low-tech non-pagans have very low Supply Limit in Pagan counties. Answered, CK2 (Crusader Kings II): Immortality Event ID and Guide, CK2 (Crusader Kings II): Strange Chest Item and Event Results. But if you want to expand, Unyielding is not that useful . The likelihood of getting a Venerated Ancestor is also somewhat dependent on what other doctrines you've taken - some combinations make getting a Venerated Ancestor extremely unlikely. In later starts, expanding north becomes increasingly difficult and by 1066, many rulers of the area have converted to Islam. . Tier 1: No changes here from previous list. Autonomous leadership bonus for an attribute depends on original pagan religion. Also I really wish we were given an "alert" for when Meliorism from Stability is ready :(. Allows building the Sacrificial Altar feature of Great Temple, Great Stone Circle, Aztec Pyramid and Stonehenge, as well as the Grand Amphitheater. )Best religion for gold income as liege : sunni Due to the additional tax from holdings in counties without Muslim religion. This gives me some new options to consider. Strangely there are no upsides to Shia or Ibadi. Penalty to moral authority (-15%) and to mission. The first thing you will choose is one Nature. C. Civilized/Religious Tax: The best Doctrine you can possibly pick. However, you may convert to an organized religion and change the succession law to the more useful (regular) gavelkind. More posts you may like r/CrusaderKings Join 3 days ago CK2 6.4K 103 r/CrusaderKings 5 days ago Even as Catholic I would land my kin (I tried to do that as Muslim and learned the hard way via decadence revolts to never do it again). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Nature: Peaceful ( you will rule a massive empire as a Roman and will mostly have Vassal Kings. Intermarry Eastern group, Zoroastrian group. Dogmatic Nature + Unrelenting Doctrine is a pretty powerful combination as it gives a flat 10% attack bonus to all units as well as makes your religion MA always high meaning easier polythesising, not to mention the removal of pagan attrition from your reformed religion, allowing you to continue ripping pagan lands to shreds without melting. When I ran a Muslim realm with a capital in Marrekech, and put 1 castle, 1 city, and 5 mosques there, I felt like I was the most powerful guy in the world. What, in your opinion, is the best aim training? (There is one exception. Reformed offensive pagans no longer lose prestige when at peace. being able to roleplay as discount Vikings as any pagan religion can be fun, and using rivers is always an interesting mechanic. To get Yourself venerated not only You need to give away Your temporal title (if You took it), it also makes You want to take some of the more questionable traits like "Craven" for Unyielding. Can proselytize in pagan capital even when tribal or nomad. If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion, it is lost. Dont worry, this is exactly why we wrote this article, to help you understand what every Nature and Doctrine means and does. However, the longer the faith goes unreformed, the weaker it becomes. Having a hard time picking between prepared invasions and Meritocracy, either epic land grabs, or being able to designate best heir.. Defensive attrition is a powerful deterrent in the early game. I agree, meliorism should have notification. Combined with not paying any penalty for raising their vassals' levies, this means offensive pagans can muster forces far beyond what their technological levels would suggest. Crusader Kings II. Fun and flavourful doctrines or flat bonuses (infidel tax and monasticism) . Ilmen is also surrounded primarily by weak Suomenusko and Romuva pagans and is shielded by an ocean from the Norse until the Viking Age event triggers, giving plenty of time to solidify power. +5% Morale of armies. I may found bridge from new DLC's teaser. Holding the Blood Games in the Grand Amphitheater grants an additional 200 Prestige. Hellenic paganism was the faith of the Greco-Roman world before the rise of Christianity. Faith is widespread in earlier starting dates, among the multitude of petty rulers, but is in decline from 1066 onwards. +10% Attack for all units. Late to the party but I like this one; for the purpose of acquiring bloodlines. All defensive pagans have access to Ancestor Worship & Choose Patron deity decision. For feudal pagans, reforming makes it possible to raise crown authority to any level. If dawnbreakers would have divine marriage paired with something else than polygamy it would be tier 1. It was the first game where I gave any titles to my family. Feudal unreformed pagans typically use gavelkind succession. The reformed Pagan religions are usually pretty nice. However, stability is very low, and you have little control over your realm. "Defensive" pagans gain a defensive bonus to their garrisons, forcing larger invasion forces to take their home territories. Need the +3 demense to have enough personal levies and also +15 opinion combined with Augustus trait and Born in the Purple ( another +15 opinion) is pretty OP. Totally fine for religions without 30% levy bonus, but if you want to expand then other natures are . With A Crown Of Thorns, You Became My King Forever. Tribal Islam is up to the point of being overpowered. Access to Hermetic society. Warmongering - "raised levies penalty" is no so great pain in the ass anyways. Religious tax wouldn't be that high tier for me, I see it as rather pointless. Raiding unavailable if culture doesn't allow raiding.Hunting focus is unavailable.Holy wars and great holy wars are unavailable, but county conquest CB is available.Dueling comes with a Piety cost.Cannot create warrior lodge if it does not already exist.AI rulers will not convert provinces. "Offensive" pagans get a bonus to their levy size (+30% levy size for Germanic, for example). The Fun element of Proselytizing is that its the only nature that actively allows you to actively convert (outside of mass conversion events) foreign leaders to your religion. Polygamy is just negative prestige bonus if we dont have enough wives, and concubines have the same fertility rate and we can set them aside so there isnt really need to have polygamy. I can't disagree strongly enough with this. Hierocratic/Autocephalous is also doable but the religious head can be a real moron and not call GHW as soon as it becomes available. I hope this tier list/guide was useful for you here reading this, despite its huge length. AI rulers will try to convert their provinces. Women can take up to 3 consorts. Two mutually exclusive bloodlines can be created by this process. Peaceful nature is powerful if you have a huge realm . While three of the faith's holy sites are in Scandinavia, the other two are in mainland Europe and often held by strong Christian rulers. Full status of woman law is enforced. Crusader Kings II. Anyway, good list and I have to say I agree on most of the points! ), creating negative synergy (though you can combine Unyielding with Animistic but dont cause Animistic is awful). If fighting unreformed pagans is a priority after reformation, the Unrelenting doctrine or the Tengri equivalent (Eternal Riders) is recommended. Thread starter Mr. Moonlight; Start date Sep 13, . Doubles the pool for good commanders and councillors and as a bonus you can give consorts to your daughters. I admit I have not played Hellenic yet but it sounds awesome to me. All rights reserved. By choosing to reform your pagan religion, you will lose all the old advantages such as attrition for enemies and subjugation wars, but gain all the bonuses of a civilized nation. Enatic law is enforced, open succession law is unlocked.
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