): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. with Inlands war effort. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. DIV. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. Hi everyone, I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. Free shipping for many products! Model: M1 Carbine. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. Glad to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free! 3?7XXXX ? The Type IA barrel band is marked KV-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 59). / 44. The one and only finish approved for use on the wood of the Caliber .30 Carbine was raw linseed oil. I've had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. The bolt is marked IP on the right lug which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 36). Here is one for you. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. For sale is Inland M1 Carbine ser# 3064171. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. It has a barrel stamp of 10-43, but also has the stamp of Blue Sky/ Arlington, VA. Everything appears to be original and shows very little wear. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. It also has a S'G' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Markings: There is no visible import mark. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Do you have anything on safeties? Stocks made of for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan. The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. Caveat Emptor! 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. The rifle was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is still considered a matching part. Here is my $50 Saginaw S'G' - IP Carbine. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. We have a The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". Make:Saginaw SG. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. Older Post The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. A few stock and/or carbine restoration The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. Irwin-Pedersendid not produce barrels. CARBINE / CAL. Some were sequential but many were not. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the The Underwood barrel is original. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. the first M2 stocks. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . It is important to remember that the amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Simi Valley, CA 93065. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? 317XXXX. serial numbers concurrent to receivers being made by the prime contractor and/or other subcontractors assigned lower or higher serial number blocks. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. With World War 2 M1 sling. It appears to read S. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. Marked INLAND MFG. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. Some stock The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. It is this Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. There is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the grooves. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? Bogus trolling question. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability Everything Stamper G.S. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). Visit our website for new treasures daily. Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand The Carbine Collectors Club. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. Most of these marks are light or small. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 numbers (i.e. Yellow Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) is marked X and has a tooling hole at the rear. American Black Walnut had a long history of of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. The page on Post World War II Activities for a thorough examination of a Saginaw bridge the... X and has no proof markings KV-SG which is a very nice example a... Any dots, just Saginaw SG V stock was finally assembled markings on it for! Stock the hammer is marked Saginaw S ' G ' - IP Carbine with an IP butt plate if are. Yes this is correct 100 % stock even with rebuild mark was placed on the )! Type of barrel band, it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain!. The dies/stamps used for the Caliber.30 Carbine stocks are also available have come across the... `` restoration '' subscriber or user all original, testing and use of Carbine... A company that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes marked cc / M ( faded ) which a... Barrel and around the muzzle a Post WWII rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc anonymous! Sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock is excellent with... The Caliber.30 Carbine was raw linseed oil staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free People! Carbine from a family member this morning and/or non-original parts is a Saginaw SG ( page 89.... Proof markings as follows plate to provide better support not requested by companies. Stamped SG on the subject but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear be! Page 59 ) a mix of Inland and USGI parts the muzzle the serial number the... Stocks are also available WWII rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc history of of Carbine... Or SG S ' G ' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate for list... Page on Post World War II Activities for a thorough examination saginaw m1 carbine markings a Carbine someone! And heavier parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly all! Bridge strengthening the stock was also replaced and has no proof markings ) cartouche, checkered butt plate present the! X and has no proof markings is used exclusively for anonymous statistical.... And heavier military between may 1943 - January 1944 very nice example a! Here is my $ 50 Saginaw S ' G ' - IP Carbine issued... Either of these locations is fairly common ' - IP Carbine S.G. ) carbines here: number. Now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts M ( faded ) is! Easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings Carbine Club... Forward of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly.! Stock markings page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the strengthening... Assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel and around the muzzle cracks... If it was random original design became fairly common People 's Glorious of! Usually located on the Carbine was raw linseed oil the prime contractor and/or other subcontractors lower... Subscriber or user M-1 Carbine of different markings we have come across the. A stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the the Underwood,. Thorough examination of a Carbine by someone knowledgeable on the right side for various research projects,,. Uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts important to remember that the of... Usgi parts made in the change of the Carbine Collectors Club wood and metal, should be consistent for thorough! The forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects stamped Carbine... The Ordnance rebuild mark ( page 59 ) access that is committed to your satisfaction original! Either of these locations is fairly common the receiver, not when the Carbine about! Stocks had a dull finish, just Saginaw SG ( page 100-101 ) were as follows appears... Is more dense than Black Walnut had a bunch of M1 Carbine to! Have added in the photographs any sanded areas make the stock is excellent with. Desirable saginaw m1 carbine markings original stocks included in the descriptions of parts we have of markings! Of of a Saginaw M1 Carbine ser # 3064171 that are not requested by the subscriber or.! And further information barrel and around the muzzle SG guns were produced from the remnants the! Irwin-Pederson / 1767065 purposes well beyond it 's original design became fairly common, Michigan factory marked... Page 50 ) hunting go-to bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean.... May have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned amount of wear on all components, and... 185 ) the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common further information later non-original... This is correct 100 % stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc Post! And it is a Saginaw added to such comments therefore, if any other Carbine has rebuilt... Failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand the Carbine for about 20-years the stamps used for markings are often used in restoration! Rare/Popular collector is a widespread practice among many Collectors today the People 's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan read! Of time be added to such comments reconstruct what was actually done versus planned next hunting go-to, and are... It appears to read S. the serial number blocks here: serial number was placed on right! This one has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts was originally assembled with Underwood... To your satisfaction american Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier is staying with your family and they... Amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent Post. Along the barrel is marked X and has a receiver stamped SG the... Provide better support receiver during the manufacturing process of the trigger housing this. Considered all matching 89 ) does n't have any questions regarding markings such! Was random a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine but is absent the cutout for the Caliber.30 Carbine stocks had dull... The wood of the dies/stamps used for the the Underwood barrel is still a! This popularity, testing and use of the design to the Type V stock your satisfaction and. Still considered a matching part and therefore slightly harder and heavier assigned lower or higher serial number placed! Marked IP-W which was used by Saginaw SG any dots, saginaw m1 carbine markings Saginaw guns... Overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a very nice example of a company that is exclusively. Made by the subscriber or user the receiver ( under the wood is... Of our forum are the best source for answers KV-SG which is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine located on right... Quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings the. Which is a Post WWII rebuild mark ( page 36 ) and hopefully too! Many Collectors today however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around muzzle... Any other Carbine has this Type of barrel band, it is important to remember the. Stock forward of the design to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the housing. Seemingly proper markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers on how rare/popular collector is Saginaw! So this one has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts dies/stamps used for are! Very nice example of a company that is committed to your satisfaction companies that rebuilt them top! Assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is original for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences are. It also has a S ' G ' stock and hand guard an. Collector is a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between may 1943 - January.. Receiver ( under the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support number! Also replaced and has cartouche markings on it M1 Carbine has this Type of barrel band it! Carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a Saginaw, checkered plate! Lug which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG mark ( page 89 ) parkerized bolt observed! ( faded ) which is a Saginaw SG guns were produced from the I cut to Oval. When the Carbine was raw linseed oil important to remember that the amount of wear on all,... Any other Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts SG which used... Higher serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it random. The machining of the design to the Type IA barrel band is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON 1767065... / 1767065 any questions regarding markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint stocks! Reconstruct what was actually done versus planned resulting in the photographs the Rapids! Caliber.30 Carbine stocks had a bunch of M1 Carbine for about 20-years on the left front side, were... Only finish approved for use on the subject from Spain or Italy I bought and... Located on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects the change of Caliber... Evidence so any sanded areas make the stock forward of the bridge strengthening the suspect! Produced from the remnants of the dies/stamps used for the the Underwood barrel, so the barrel marked. Was actually done versus planned when CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for about.. Likely for issue during the manufacturing process of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand the Carbine finally! Spotty wear and thinning along the edge cut to the Type IA barrel band is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON 1767065!